Open to debate

 

H & R Daniel

 

Makers of the finest late Regency Porcelain

OPEN FOR DEBATE.

Another 'Lookalike'?

A recent acquisition has raised some questions. The accompanying images show two Cream Jugs, apparently produced from the same mould, and maybe they were.

The jug shown on the right in the image above was obviously made by H&R Daniel in their Sutherland shape, and is clearly numbered on the underside as pattern number 8455. The hand painted scenic decoration is typical of the high standards that we associate with Daniel, the gilding is equally superb, but it is when we compare it with the jug shown on the left that differences in the quality between the two pieces become more apparent. The raised molded details on the left-hand jug are not quite as crisp as those found on the Sutherland piece, and the only decoration is gilding, but this is simple, and sparse. However, our initial doubts as to its authenticity were confirmed by the pattern number found under the base: 330.

Could it be that after the final demise of H&R Daniel that much of their equipment, particularly their moulds, found its way into the hands manufacturers who were previously competitors of Henry & Richard, and who were happy to re-introduce this Daniel shape, albeit to a lower quality?

If this is the case, and the jug numbered 330 is not a Daniel piece, then this suggests that care should be taken when purchasing, what at first view, may appear to be a genuine piece of Daniel porcelain.

 

Tony Shaw March 2016

When is a 'Variation' in design more than just a simple variation?

 

Three distinct pairs of cups & saucers, one in Etuscan shape with angular handle, one in First Gadroon shape, and the third in Spodes Bell shape, but all share one common feature, they all display the same 3863 pattern number.

Below are images of the three pairs with their pattern numbers that are found beneath five of the items, the only unnumbered piece is the Etrucan cup, but another example of this shape and pattern can be found in current reference books and clearly labelled as pattern number 3863.

 

Tony Shaw July 2015

Links between Daniel and Spode

 

When Henry Daniel and Spode II dissolved their business collaboration in 1822 it is generally thought that there was little further contact between the two companies. This Shrewsbury trio and side plate (Pattern 4224) shows that this was not the case and are an interesting marriage. It is generally agreed that the trio part of the set was made in the early years of the Daniel company and date C1824, the irony is that the side plate is a replacement made by Spode with a backstamp which dates it to between 1891 and 1900, some 45 years, and a generation, after the close of the Daniel factory. Although the original moulds were not available, the Spode factory has used their own stock blank and carefully used gilding to pick out the distinctive Daniel lobes. I wonder if the Spode workforce at the time of taking the order would even have been aware of the Daniel factory or the history that the two companies shared?

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE DANIEL MOULDS?

 

I would love to know your thoughts on these plates that I recently purchased. The plates are stoneware and appear to be in the style of Mary Talbot with beautiful, and typical, Daniel pierced handles. The colour is very striking in burnt orange with flow blue decoration and gilding. On the rear of both plates are backstamps with "WINDSOR SCROLLS" below the initials S & H. I have been through my books and I have found the manufacturer Stevenson and Hancock which normally relates to Derby pieces . Has anybody come across similar pieces? Can anyone enlighten me as to who S & H was if it is not Stevenson and Hancock?

 

David Shaw

​Hello David Shaw,

I was looking at your H & R Daniel website tonight and came across the section on "Open to Debate" where you show two plates in a burnt orange with flow blue decoration & gilding as well as the backstamp "WINDSOR SCROLLS" and the initials "S & H."

An awesome reference book that I use quite often is: Encyclopedia of Marks On American, English, and European Earthenware, Ironstone, and Stoneware (1780-1980) by Arnold A. & Dorothy E. Kowalsky, copyright 1999.

The pattern name of WINDSOR SCROOLS can be found in the above mentioned book on page 451 under the maker's name of Sneyd & Hill (S & H).

If you do not have access to the above mentioned book, I could always email you a copy of this page... if needed.

I also looked online for this pattern and found a link for you to see at Replacements.com:

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/SHQWIS.htm

S & H Windsor Scrolls

Item#: 209238

Manufacturer Status: Discontinued

Pattern: Windsor Scrolls by S & H [SHQWIS]

Description: Flow Blue, Scrolls, Scalloped, No Trim

​Marks4Antiques also has a link to this pattern:

http://www.marks4antiques.com/apa/S-H-Flow-Blue-Windsor-Scrolls--8fcbd

S & H Flow Blue "Windsor Scrolls" Pattern Well-and-Tree Meat Platter

I hope you find this information helpful. If any questions, please contact me.

Actually, I'd really appreciate a short & simple reply to let me know that you received this email.

Thank you so much!

Best regards,

Wendi Schaefer

MORE SUBJECTS OPEN TO DEBATE

 

A lot of research has taken place into the wares produced by Henry and Richard DANIEL, however, there are still items that appear which do not conform to any of the known DANIEL shapes or wares. The question must be asked if DANIEL's took in blanks from other factories and decorated them or sold blanks to their contemporaries.

At the demise of the company, and when Richard DANIEL was declared bankrupt, a number of the companies assets must have been sold on. These assets may well have, or probably did include moulds. This may explain why some well known DANIEL shapes appear with other makers marks, or why some of the decoration on DANIEL shapes is of such lower quality that you doubt it could possibly have come from the same factory.

Below are a number of pieces that are open to debate. I would love to hear your thoughts on the items and welcome any photographs of similar pieces that would stimulate debate and interest .

 

David Shaw

 

 

 

This wonderful coffee pot and cup were purchased and bear all the features on both pieces of the Swansea factory. The dolphin finial on the coffee pot lid and the well recorded Swansea handle. On the cup the distinctive loop handle common to Swansea and Coalport. The decoration is where the confusion lies. Both pieces are decorated in the style of H & R Daniel Pattern 3967 and the cup is clearly marked in script, identifying it as a Daniel piece.

Could Pollard and his association between the two factories be the link?

The reason for the collaboration between the two factories can only be speculated upon. Your views would be very welcome.

 

David Shaw

 

COFFEE POT PHOTOGRAPH BY KIND PERMISSION OF REGINALD TURNER

DANIEL SHELL SHAPE VARIATION C?

 

Previously in this section we pictured the peach coloured cup and saucer that appeared to be a Daniel shape and manufactured using a Daniel mould. The sticking point was the handle. After more research, and further acquisitions, does the handle warrant this now being referred to as a 'Shell Variation C'?

On Page 159 of Michael Berthouds excellent book "A Compendium of British Cups" it shows an identical handled specimen which is described as an "Unidentified, pedestal cup with slightly flared lip decorated with a green version of Daniel's pattern 5319". He goes on to speculate that this could well have been made as a replacement cup. The recent acquisition of a Shell shape cup bearing the pattern number 5000 must surely open a debate as to whether the broken looped handle was another option offered at the time of manufacture. The painting and gilding on these are superb and match the quality of any Daniel piece. The only other difference being that the pedestal base is slightly higher than the standard Daniel A and B variations. The question must be asked if any manufacturer producing replacement items would go to the trouble of using Daniel moulds for the body of a cup, but use their own handle mould. Your thoughts would be most welcome.

Several other images of the cups and saucers bearing pattern number 5000 can also be viewed in our 'Recent Discoveries' section.

 

David Shaw

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